Here is a link to Google Places of some soundings in the Anchorage at La Cruz de Huanacaxtle:
Could not get the flag to take depth name so depth shows in list to left…
Could not get the flag to take depth name so depth shows in list to left…
Woo Hoo, we ordered the Beta 30 from Andrew Winton at Beta Marine Ltd.:
I believe if we were taking delivery in the USA we would have had to order from a dealer or distributor in the United States. We did check with Beta Marine West in Sausalito, CA and decided to import the motor directly from the UK into Mexico. It accounts for a cost savings of roughly $4,000 to $5,000 USD… (Before customs costs here in MX - these may erode the cost savings significantly)… Stay tuned to see how we fair !http://www.betamarine.co.uk/
Andrew Winton was extremely helpful with all our questions and putting together order to meet our requirements. Here is the order we got together…
Some details: Old motor W40 was 500 lbs with the sail drive gear, new motor Beta 30 is about 310 lbs with gear box. Old motor was geared 2:1 reduction and 3000 max rpm new motor is geared 2.45:1 reduction with 3600 max rpm. We are keeping our RH 16×12 3-blade propeller on a 1″ shaft. I have power curves and ALL in the last post!
|Beta 30 heat exchanger|
|Technodrive TMC 60 ratio 2.45:1||
|Control panel C||
|120 Amp alternator||
|High Rise Injection Bend||
|R&D clamp coupling bored 1″||
|Special Feet see rev 01 dimensions||
|Export packing case||
|Spares1 x thermostat & gasket2 x Heat exchanger “O” ring ‘pair’
1 x Injector
6 x Zinc anodes
6 x spare oil filters
3 x spare fuel filters
4 x spare impellers for raw water pump
3 x spare belts
spare air filter element
|Airfreight to Guadalajara airport||
|Total Nett Price – Pounds Sterling|
I did not feel comfortable publishing the cost, but the pound sterling is around $1.65 USD we still have to figure out a couple things:
Customs/duty cost in Guadalajara, Jalisco MX and shipping charges from Guadalajara to La Cruz de Huanacaxtle, Nayarit MX
Getting the Temporary Import Permit (TIP) documentation changed from the old serial number to the new one…
Getting the paperwork done so we can minimize the import duty and ease the trip through customs… they will require in Guadalajara. There is that old Cruiser Rumor that a Vessel in Transit and TIP Vessels do not pay import duty on replacement parts…
We may have to show/have certified? that the old engine was destroyed in order to replace it with a new one and minimize duty…
Jess will start in on this and we will blog the results…
We still do not know for a fact why we lost all the oil from the engine into the bilge, 30 mi south of Manzanillo, after running 30 hours or so on April 01, 2013? Some mechanic huh?? The captain and crew have vowed to stop and check oil at shorter intervals in all future voyages!
First removal with Rafa at the OLD Total Yacht Works in Mazatlan Marina:
First rebuild was roughly $8000 USD and took from May 17, 2013 to October 15ish 2013…. We also had to rent and live in Mazatlan for the 5 months… Slip for summer was a deal though, it was June 01 thru October 31 for $1666 USD for our Tartan-37…
Second, pulling the motor in La Cruz de Huanacaxtle with Victor and crew Febuary 02, 2014:
Second tear down (Ah that is what it is!) broken crank and chipped gears on cam shaft and ???:
Zoom in there are chips out of the gears…
FIN (for now)
Found this quote on the Tartan37 web page too when contemplating the idea of down sizing the motor from a W40 to maybe a 30 or 35 HP machine. It is pretty difficult to find the exact HP the 4.108 was developing in out boat, After pushing her with a 9.8 HP mercury outboard from Barre de Navidad to Mazatlan we feel like a smaller engine would suffice:
“This is a general comment on fuel burn for diesel engines. Of the hundreds, if not thousands, of fuel consumption charts I have read all get 20hp/gal/hr within 10% or so. To simply relate this, if the engine is burning a quart of fuel an hour it is ‘making 5hp’.” I think we can agree that our boats consume about 0.75 gallons per hour at 2000-2200 rpm and in my instance hull #52, W40 2:1 reduction and a 16.5″ x11″ right hand Gori 2 blade folding prop, I expect 5.9 to 6.2 with a clean bottom. By the consumption chart in the quote, my W40 is only burning fuel for 15 horsepower. If a Tartan 37 sister ship has a 33 hp or a 55 hp engine I think it really is only going to need to make 15 hp to go 6 kts. I have a close friend with a Sabere 38 MK1 that is bigger than a T37 he has a W33 and it moves along just as nice as can be, he claims 0.65 gph at 1800rpm and 5.8kt. I know of a T37 that repowered with a 55 hp Yanmar he had to enlarge the exhuast to 3″ plus a lot of other modifications, he had a 16″ 3 blade MaxProp but the Yanmar had a 2.3? reduction so he had to run several hundred rpm higher speed since standard practice would be to run a 18″ prop with a 55 hp engine, since there is no room to swing an 18″ prop on a T37 he stayed with 16″ and the standard (for that engine) low gear ratio with more rpms. I know a a couple of boats in the 35′ range C&C 35 and a Freedom 35 these boats have Yanmar 27hp 3 cyl engines they are smooth quiet installations and move the boats along very well. I have heard conversations on this site and others that the consensus of engine techs is to run the diesel at about 75% power for best operation overall. What I hear from those who use that advise is that the try to run the engines at 75% of the max rpm, so if an engine has a rating at 3000 rpm max that would be 2250 rpm but if the engine is only burning .75 gph making 15hp out of a potential 40hp then it is only loaded to 37%. Adding a new engine with 55 hp would make the utilization factor even less, repowering with a smaller engine is more in line with the actual amount of power used. Sam
Thanks for the insight Sam! I see from all my old W40 power curves which show us, when using .65/.7 gph we get a prop load of 10-12 HP. Hope the new motors get a little more power to the prop, all the better!
Another nice article on Pearson 35′s re-powering: http://www.pearson35.com/projects/a4_replacement.htm
A formula I found says you burn about .4 pounds of diesel per HP and diesel weighs 7.2 pounds per gallon. soooo .0555 X HP equals fuel consumption in gal per hour. Works out that it’s like 10.8HP at 0.6 gallon per hour. We tend to burn around .6 to .7 gph running the W40 at 1800 to 2000 rpm. Got around 6 knots in calm water clean bottom… The chart left side below is from the old W40 brochure and on the right from the new Beta 30…
I read someplace also, that a HP per 1000 lbs gross weight is a good number?, Our vessel weight is in the range of 15000 to 17000, so around 15 to 17HP for a Tartan 37.
So why a 40 or 50 HP motor? Unless that’s all that fits?
Note: Our propeller is a 16RH12 on a 1″ shaft with a Morgan Flex coupling, 4 bolts at 3.25INCH or 82.5MM bolt circle and on a propeller calculator site: http://www.vicprop.com/displacement_size.php : We get:
Data Input, Tartan-37 #82
Speed & Power Calculations
Things you wonder about -
Spare parts and service parts should be easily available, a decent reputation in the market place might be important, warranty is hard enforce south of the border.
Westerbeke: Read someplace, maybe on the Tortuga site, that the Westerbeke 44D is a marinized Mitsubishi Motor, yuck! Never seen a Mitsubishi auto on the US roads older than 5 years, what happens to them all?
Perkins: Perkins is making bigger motors these days, minimum size motor shown on their web site is 90HP: http://www.perkins.com/leisure
Yanmar: Why not? lots of them around, as many good stories as bad! The 3YM30 looks like a great motor, however, the support feet are designed STANDARD to place the output centerline of the propeller shaft about 2.5″ to 3″ higher than our old W40 configuration, as well as being a couple of inches narrower side to side. This would mean cutting down the existing motor bed and re-making it lower in the boat. Work that we really do not want to do if we can avoid it!
The beta, we saw a Beta at the boat show in Oakland/Alameda a year ago and were impressed with quiet and smooth running. Seems that lots of folks are choosing Beta Marine Engines these days, it is a marinized Kubota engine, made in England. AND they will make custom mount feet STANDARD as a part of the order process.
So if for no BETTER reason than the mounting issue, we are pursuing the Beta 30 as a replacement for the W40 in our Tartan 37, well it is the Tartan 38, deep keel, one of only 30 or so if you believe the web: http://www.talkofthedock.com/boat-reviews/used-sail/382-tartan-37-review/
We are getting a couple quotes, since import to MX will be extra work regardless of where it comes from, we are getting the Beta factory quote as well as the Beta distributor in CA quote… WE HOPE TO PLACE AN ORDER TOMORROW OR TUESDAY!
SOME MOTOR MAKERS, from the Nauticexpo sight. These manufacturers make (or marinize) the under 40 HP Engines :
50 HP minimum…
Marine motor exhaust overheating may mean you have a raw water flow problem, a plastic bag can take down your $$$$ motor… So the code says
|AMERICAN BOAT &YACHT COUNCIL (ABYC)ABYC: “P-22.214.171.124 Requirements for Wet Exhaust Systems-2002
An indicator shall be provided at all helm positions to indicate
loss of exhaust system cooling water supply”
So here are some commercial solutions:
And some links to ebay parts for the do-it yourself folks ;) Found parts on ebay, just add wire! (and maybe a switch to test the buzzer to see if system has power?) one of the commercial vendors gives you a schematic diagram!
NOT A BAD IDEA from the seminar at the La Cruz Marina Nayarit today!
It may be too soon to say what happened to the motor on Hajime after 35 years of faithful service…
Here are more photos of the innards of the beast…
This AM we went to the teardown shop…
General impression is that the the block sat in an unprotected area prior to assembly, it has rust where it should not, top of the block, etc. All the gasket sealing was put in with an lots of silicon sealant material, getting into places it maybe should not be. The old pistons were installed, the rings don’t look exactly new either. The liners show aggressive hone marks. On the crankshaft the throws and main bearing shaft areas are scored, the journal bearings and main bearings are scored. Carbon build up in the combustion areas seems extreme for 175 hours run time. The injectors are pretty carboned up. The mechanic said several bolt torque feld wrong when disassembled, loose, not tight. The head, I can’t comment on heads, I’m still following my mechanics suggestions and drinking heavily… All in all the pink paint is still very nice.
Here are photos of motor after about 175 total hours run since re-build, 50 break-in plus 125 after we left Mazatlan…
Jess came home from a day at the mechanic’s shop here in La Cruz de Huanacaxtle with a piece of a crank shaft, ciguenal, in her purse!
How you say, well it was only the forward 3 inches. Seems it broke!
A 45 deg. brittle fracture just after the first counter weight… NOW the video in prior posts makes sense, sorta, except the part where the motor still ran with a broken crank shaft??? And if the front main bearing was tight how could I have moved the crank, even of it was broken.
There is scoring on the rear face of the counter weight, where the #1 journal was, like the piston connecting rod was rubbing on the counter weight, maybe this heated up the crank shaft and helped work harden it to the point where it was able to fracture as shown in the photos?
Jess said the head and valves were a carbon-ed up mess, cam shaft had a chip in a gear, along with enough gasket glue to clog up all the oil passages in the block… All in all this weeks mechanic, Victor, is scratching his head, in English and Spanish wondering if the re-build had a major flaw that precipitated this mess???
Needless to say, this makes the idea of RE-rebuilding the motor a definite scary proposal!
We will go take some photos and maybe call Rafa in Mazatlan and see if he will come down and pick it up to re-rebuild it?
We think that 175 hours after install and 2.5 months from leaving Mazatlan and usd $8500.00 should not resolve like this. We are taking Bob Buchanan’s advice and still DRINKING HEAVILY…
Hey! Is that a crank shaft in your hat?
Yah, I know, but got to have some fun with it…
Some photos of pulling the PINK motor on 2014-Feb 01: Victor (Jefe), Angel ( in red), and Miguel (shirt matches motor):
It’s Constitution Day weekend so no Saturday work. Oh yah, it’s Super Bowl Sunday too! We will crack the motor open on Monday 2014 Feb 03 and see what we can see…
Remember the wiggley adapter plate on video? If not here it is again: